Me and My Ghoul » LFG, One Month Later

LFG, One Month Later

Jan 19, 2010 I dps, gear, specs.

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I know this is a topic that’s been covered (and covered, and covered some more) by those more prolific then me…I figured I’d still try and exp and upon my thoughts on the LFG system, now that I’ve been using it near constantly for the last month while I try to collect Primordial Saronite. I know that I still owe readers (are there any of you really left?) that promised “gearing to raid tank” guide, but it’s still in progress.

I’ve read various different opinions on how to deal with strangers in these LFG groups, and while most groups do their thing with nary a word (besides the hellos and goodbyes, and sometimes not even that), the thing that most often seems to stir conversation is “underperformance.” There seems to be several trains of thought on how to deal with these situations. The Greedy Goblin advocates a “tell me if I suck” approach, while WoW.com’s Drama Mama’s prefers a kinder, gentler “don’t hurt their feelings” stance. Me? I’ve come to the conclusion that I fall somewhere in between.

As perhaps noted in my tweets, I’ve become a big fan of the addon, REMOVED, that, amongst its features, pops up a box at the start of groups, letting you see how “geared” your group is. Do they have gear appropriate for their spec? Is it gemmed, enchanted? Or are you looking at a hunter in spell power gear with a tanking necklace? REMOVED answers all that before a pull is even initiated, which can give you a good idea of what to expect from those you’re with. But what if someone still performs worse then their gear suggests they would? Then what? I’ll never boot someone (or encourage the booting of someone) for low performance, but I am of the mindset that it should be addressed.

As such, the tactic I’ve been using is to ask them if they’d mind a suggestion (typically in say rather than party chat, since whispers weren’t working in these new cross-server groups for awhile). I’ve yet to have someone say no, and often times, the person is a fresh 80 or someone playing a class they weren’t familiar with. I suggest other blogs I think might be helpful (like Pike’s or Rilgon’s for the struggling hunter). The last time this happened, when I was on my fledgling paladin (in a group with 3 other paladins and a hunter), the other party members also jumped in with friendly thoughts for our hunter group-mate. I believe the bulk of that group even continued to run several more dungeons after I had to leave (due to time constraints) – and I’m hopeful that the player behind the hunter benefited from being able to pick the brains of several “veteran” hunters.

Overall, I’m generally happy with the LFG system. It’s not without it’s bad quirks (like some loot abuse loopholes I’ve seen a few times now), but I really can’t complain. Without this system, I wouldn’t have been able to quickly turn around Grim into a raid-ready member of his guild, nor my hunter as a viable raid alternative.

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45511 responseshttp://meandmyghoul.com/?p=455LFG%2C+One+Month+Later2010-01-19+15%3A45%3A10Grimtorn so far, say something?

Grimtorn Says:

It's a slippery slope, no doubt. But I've found if they're vastly underperforming (and in heroics, I consider anyone under 1k dps as an automatic underperformer), that it's usually a case of them not knowing quite what to do with their character. These tend to be the 71 talent points in one tree, grabbing any piece of gear that the game tells them they can wear type. That's a generalization, yes, but these seem to be the folks who just don't know where to start.

In that case, a little bit of advice – particularly well worded and not condescending – can go a long way on improving not just their performance, but undoubtedly, their game experience.
Jan 19, 2010, 3:18:37 am
Cayleb Says:

That's a tough call. As a tank, I'll usually offer some direction if another party member is blatantly fumbling. Like if they're opening with a high-threat AoE before I've even taunted, or letting my mana get to 20% in a heroic before tossing a heal my way. Or standing in the fire/voidzone, lingering next to the exploding zombie, etc.

When it comes to under-performance, I generally keep my mouth shut. Having played almost exclusively as a paladin at 80, my ability to gauge the under-performance of other classes is somewhat limited. That said, if a player is actively seeking help on improving performance I'll offer up what I know and/or redirect them to blogs like yours and sites like EJ.
Jan 19, 2010, 1:13:28 am
Cayleb Says:

Very true, though when it comes to <1K deeps or completely uninformed gear/talent choices, I tend to think of that as fumbling, rather than mere under-performance.

So in that sense, yes, I completely agree. A few kind words setting them on the right path can do worlds of good—for the other player at least. You're not that likely to run into that particular cross-server pugger again, but at least you can hope they remember the kindness and pay it forward later.
Jan 19, 2010, 6:02:39 pm
Grimtorn Says:

It seems that DKs and Hunters have the hardest time grasping how to play their characters – perhaps because these are the two presumably "easiest" characters to play? It boggles my mind how many level 80 DKs I see that are running around with one or more of their starter trinkets and/or their starter sigil still equipped. For the sigil especially, there's an easily acquired alternative in Grizzly Hills – regardless of their spec.

But yeah – I hope that when I talk to these players, and offer advice, that they see the good intentions and that it positively impacts their game play. I guess we'll never know though, unless one randomly stumbles across this blog and puts two and two together…
Jan 19, 2010, 6:10:42 pm
Sheetmedrurz Says:

I think that addon was the reason for a group quit. This morning I queued up my DK and got put in a Reg PoS. The tank greeted us warmly upon zoning in and said that he was just getting back after not playin for a few months and said he might be a little slow. He had 35k hp unbuffed so it was not like he was undergeared for the normal version. This warlock zoned in and immediately started criticizing the tank for not knowing how to play. I have a warrior tank myself and although the tank had on 1 or 2 pieces of dps gear (possibly for threat?) he seemed he had his talent spec and everything fine. The lock and the other DPS and healer left group but we found other ppl and finished the run just fine.
Jan 19, 2010, 10:19:04 pm
Grimtorn Says:

Unless the tank had a number of bad enchants/gems/gears, Elitist Group wouldn't have been the reason for a group quit. That sounds more to me like someone who was expecting a quick run and was pissed off to find out it was going to be slow because the tank needed to get his groove back.

I'd encourage you to check out EG and see what it actually does before haphazardly blaming it for an LFG issue you encountered.
Jan 19, 2010, 2:45:26 am
Sheetmedrurz Says:

I'm actually really interested in seeing how this addon works, also I need to download Rankwatch (I think thats what its called). I've heard of EG before and how popular its becoming and I was kind of shocked at how quickly the Lock started bashing the tank when he zoned in. I was thinking he must have did a quick inspect on the tank as the first action after the loading screen but I simply thought this addon might have been more of the culprit. I was over at NostockUI.com and Matticus has done a really good feature with EG so it is becoming a very popular mod.
Jan 19, 2010, 3:30:08 pm
Grimtorn Says:

There are always going to be elitist basterds who expect everyone they run with to be 100% perfectly geared – though they seem to be more prone to using gearscore then EG. You've already mentioned the tank in question had some DPS gear on..I'm going to guess that his enchants and/or gems weren't up to snuff, either. Personally, if I see someone in a tank or healer role with 40% or lower for gear (meaning they're wearing only 40% items appropriate for their role), I'm not saying a word, I'm just jetting out of there. I'd rather a deserter debuff then paying tons of gold to repair bills.

But yes, EG is a very good addon. But – it doesn't tell you how good the player is – just what you might be able to expect. Case in point – on Grim this morning I ran H: UP for my frost badges. The bulk of the group has ilvl 235 or better gear on – except the tank. The tank is showing at ilvl 190ish. But…they're gemmed, and enchanted. I adjusted my DPSing accordingly, laying back a little bit longer then I normally would have – and it all went fine. The tank, despite the lack of gear, was phenomenal, and we sailed through the dungeon with zero deaths.
Jan 19, 2010, 4:05:39 pm
Sheetmedrurz Says:

On my tank I've been known to throw on a piece of tank gear myself since 5-mans you only need 535 Defense. I use it to pick up my tanking DPS a bit to help out when running the non ICC dungeons. Sometimes it makes me nostalgic for my Arms/Fury days…lol
Jan 19, 2010, 4:17:44 pm
Grimtorn Says:

I presume you meant DPS gear? Regardless…one piece of gear might raises my eyebrows, but I'll deal with it. If we're talking 4, 5, or more pieces of DPS gear in a tank set, then EG is warning me and I'm correctly concerned.
Jan 19, 2010, 4:22:29 pm
Sheetmedrurz Says:

oops, haha Ya, I meant DPS gear. Usually when I heal on my priest and I see 35k hp I don't even worry. Plus i have the addon that gives me their current spec and talent point alocation in my tooltip when I mouseover. I'm right with you. There's no way someone can meet the Def cap with more than 4 or 5 pieces of dps gear…unless it has a good amount of resilience on it. Even then, its not going to help block, dodge, or parry any.
Jan 19, 2010, 5:57:26 pm